Who wan't to do what?

[Eluna]

In the past few months since The Tallon of Arathor has been established, I must say i think we have had a good time, but as good as it may have been I must say that i am a bit disapointed on the raiding side.
I know that I am not alone on this disapointment so i would therefore like to know how many think we should try to make more raids. im not saying MC or ONY as it is now, but i would like to see more raiding and a future for The Tallon.
I furthermore think there needs to be a more swift and firm leadership from the counsil (And no im not talking TRC leadership:)) as I see people not having been active on either raiding, RP or socialwise. When people are being kicked from the guild due to lack of the above mentioned, people tend to become more aware about the situation at hand, and what will happen if they don't start participating. I would therefore like to see a more firm leadership from the counsil. I know that many of the RP people in the guild disagrees, but there is no need for not alloving the other officers to arrange raids, just because some of you won't :/

if people have comments on this please state your two cents

[taelus]

I agree fully with us adding more emphasis to raiding, with more than two a week.

Also there is a reward system in the works to pursuade people to bother turning up to events, if the other officers will approve it.

Your only problem is convincing the other officers now, but a good vote should easily resolve this. The guild is for the people after all, not just for its leaders.

I will spread this discussion through-out the Circle and put feedback here.

[Tarim]

We are working on becomming more strict, Take an example like Nym, three times AFK without notice no loot next run. Also people who sign up for something but dont show will get eventualy punished.

I am kinda wondering, With TBC on our doorstep, why bother for the next three weeks to raid our ass off while in TBC we will be spending most our time in 5 mans in outland till level 70. Once we all are level 70 we shall raid more often, learning the new instances with only two times a week isnt do able(This is my opinion dont think every guild leader thinks the same).

So why not wait untill TBC hits, lay low on the raids for a while (Also known as just twice a week) and see what we need to do when we are 70.

[dara]

tarim said:

I am kinda wondering, With TBC on our doorstep, why bother for the next three weeks to raid our ass off while in TBC we will be spending most our time in 5 mans in outland till level 70. Once we all are level 70 we shall raid more often, learning the new instances with only two times a week isnt do able(This is my opinion dont think every guild leader thinks the same).

So why not wait untill TBC hits, lay low on the raids for a while (Also known as just twice a week) and see what we need to do when we are 70.

If someone wants to see new content there's still Edge of Madness. We just a need an alchy with 300 skill *peers for Zoe*

Oh, and how many of us have done Buru in aq20? That's a load of fun at least the first 10 times How about Ossirian, is the Circle good enough to drop him before expansion?

edit: I suppose twice a week would be plenty, but then again turnout hasn't been that good. So, can't really blame leaders

edit 2: Removed unnecessary provocation. Let's be more like superhappymewmewkittens

[dark]

Just have some love!!! ;D ;D ;D



Aq i found was really fun.....

I actually love PvP aswell....

I did enjoy the "Linzi" defence party i used to rush to join when she attacked Redridge

Er....then theres always casual flirting

[taelus]

Well the poll is looking quite blatent at the moment.

[Gizmo]

Woo, more raids I won't be able to make! Though I've been unlucky enough the last two weeks to be off work.

*shrug*

[Tarim]

Perhaps this poll should be about how many more days you want raid, but where do you want to go. The current ZG runs arent the only thing we can go to of course

[taelus]

I thought you could do Saturday Gizmo?

[galvinoth]

In the start, a deal was made that we -would- be casual, and only do two raids a week. We want a good RP atmosphere, and we don't want to risk the TRC trap.

[Tarim]

I think that would be last thing people would want Martin.

But in my opinion, raiding more then we agreed on (except for level 70 to learn the encounters in the new raid instances and when we have them back to 2 a week) will do this to us.

I know we represent the comunity of our guild but Im sorry to say that when people want to raid more, e.g. 5 days a week they are, to my believes, in the wrong guild.

This guild was made for casual people, rp and raid wise. If we bring the emphasis more to raiding or rp the imbalance will drive people away who either want to rp more (if we chose to go for raiding) or to raid more (if we chose to rp more).

I believe the current time slots are good (Tuesday and Thursday raiding, Friday PvP if anyone bothers to show up for a change and Saturday and Sunday for RP events) This leaves Monday and Wednesday free for us to do what ever we want.

If we add another raiding, pvp, or RP day we will be so full of events and things we want to attend that we will be burned out within 3 weeks.

So, to clarify, I am against any change that includes doing something of one thing more then we have agreed on because of the pure fact it will wear us out terribly.

Do you remember the constant raiding we did with TRC ? Every night going into MC to get a bit further, that was tiresome and became a drag really really quick.

So will it be for RP, after a few hours of RP most people will go away on their own ways to do something else, making more events or RP days will again tire people to a point of not wanting to RP at all because they are sick of it.

PvP, same story, Its fun to PvP for a few hours but doing it more then that and it becomes annoying and boring (There are of course others who disagree with me) and most of all, repatative. Sure a guild premade is fun but for the last 3 weeks Amelia and I have been trying to get a guild premade done on Friday but no one ever bothered showing up, so why bother making yet another pvp day if no one shows up.

This sure is an vast amount of text to read but I want to voice my thoughts on our guild and its days with events.

[dara]

Can't resists to post more It's long, but I hope it gives some ideas

Anyway, Tarim and Galvinoth are right. Guild has been founded with certain vision/philosophy. It is only fair for all to stay true to that. Surely new goals can be set, if people feel like it, but like said, best wait till 70.

Now, to the question that matters:

One thing I would like to hear clarification about is the degree of ambition in pve. This guild has pve listed as one of the goals, could this be elaborated a bit more? How high is the goal?

In terms of current instances(imagine they all are 10-25 mans):
scenario 1: Is the goal to do some casual pve without really need to ever get past zg or early aq? Just to get some raiding done and bit of gear to people.

scenario 2: Or, is the goal to steadily progress to new and more challenging instances, even if raids are only twice a week? Content with being not the fastest advancing raiding guild, but still doing good work. Goal is to do mc, bwl even some aq40.

scenario 3 (for discussion): Compete actively for server firsts and generally be regarded as one of the most notable raiding guilds on server. Goal is to breeze trough mc and bwl, clear aq40 and get to naxx.

Let's talk about TRC again.

TRC's goal was clearly somewhere between 2 and 3 (with AD having such a lead). Like we know, progression for TRC slowed down. To fix that amount of raids was increased, however that only made things worse. Because, the key-success factor for raiding progression is high enough overall attendance.

Let me elaborate this, though probably not needed. What TRC had was about 20 persons with nearly or above 90% attendance (some called it the core) and then 80 persons with below 30% attendance. So, the 20 persons coming to every raid quickly learned the instance and geared up(though they had the good blue gear too). However, the other 20 raid-spots were filled(if so lucky) with people who had very low raid-attendance had usually poor gear and they really didn't know how to play their character simply because they never put enough time to learn. In MC this was fine, because most of the challenge there lies on certain key players (tanks, healers and sometimes decurse). However, BWL was simply impossible because you there you need 40 persons on top of their game. In the end, there was nothing to do about it(well, /gkick or raidban and recruiting new people(who didn't exist)).

so, some generalization about attendance:

So, if we accect raid-attendance as key success factor, raiding groups would ideally be very small and have high attendance. Amount of raids per week will then only dictate the speed accomplishments come. Progression will come steadily and depending on the skill of your players. If you look at those guilds with success in naxx, you will find most of them raid a lot and are relatively small.

So, to compete in pve progression with others you need both of those things( lot of time and attendance). But to compete in pve progression with yourself you can do with less, that being attendance.

now, back to ToA:

This guild needs to refine the philosophy and let us know what the goal in pve is. Doing it now gives those whose personal goals don't match time to find a new guild with better match.

I see scenarios 1 and 2 both viable choices for ToA. If we go for 1, no more planning really needs to be done. Let's just go with the flow.

If we choose 2, lot more organization is needed. DKP system with incentives and penalties, some classbalance considerations in recruitment. Perhaps even raider ranks to separate those intrested in raiding from truly casuals(in practise raiders have priority on signup and perhaps even loot).

edit: for scenario 2:

One of the most important things is change of mindsets to enable high attendance. Yes, we all have RL things and such, but gaming can be seen as a hobby among others(sports, collecting stuff, arts etc). If it's something you want to do, you can reserve time for it. Priorization is sadly something we all need to do.

And actually, I would very much like to compare raiding into team sports. If you are part of a footbal team, you do show up to practises and games. If you don't, then don't expect to get much time on field the rare occasion you do bother to turn up. Hell, you might even get kicked from the team.

Casual raiding is more of going to park to kick ball... have fun and all, but never really accomplish anything in it.

So, take a pick

[Gizmo]

taelus said:

I thought you could do Saturday Gizmo?

I can, but remember all the trouble we had organising Saturday raids and getting enough people to turn up? >_<

[Tarim]

My vision of the guild, Dara, is scenario 1, however, when we are level 70 we shall do the 25 mans instead of the endless ZG and AQ runs, See then new content such as the awesome caverns of time (Amelia showed me today ...AND FUCK THAT LOOKS NICE)

[nj00s]

Its not like every instance will be open for every1 in tbc....you still have to farm for those epix to get into the harder ones ^^


And since you got this poll up you should make another about how often ppl want to raid....easy way to solve the problem tbh

you should do AQ20 though, lots of good blues and epix there...and the fights are more fun then MC and BWL fo sho ;D